Brett Goldstein on his dark turn in 'Shrinking,' Season 4 of 'Ted Lasso'

The moment Brett Goldstein is about to say something remotely serious, he begins to choke, either for my amusement or to quell the impulse. In truth, it's probably a bit of both, but every time the conversation turns to a lesson learned, a compliment received or, God forbid, craft, the 44-year-old looks physically ill. “People talking about their trial are disgusting,” says the British native turned reluctant Angeleno. “Just shut up and do the work.”

Perhaps Goldstein takes his own advice too seriously. Since his big breakthrough as the endearingly gruff Roy Kent Ted Lassoa role that earned him two consecutive Emmys, the actor, writer and comedian has yet to press pause. There is both a seemingly eternal stand-up tour and a weekly podcast Films to be buried withalong with his introduction as Hercules in Marvel's Thor: Love and Thunder and stars opposite Jennifer Lopez in the upcoming Netflix romantic comedy Office romance. Goldstein was also the author and protagonist of the almost futuristic love story All of youwhich premiered at the Toronto Film Festival, and when shrinkagethe Apple TV+ therapeutic comedy he created with Jason Segel and Ted Lasso Chef Bill Lawrence returns on October 16th, he will also be there. In fact, he was cast in a surprisingly dark role alongside Segel and Harrison Ford. On a recent evening on the Warner Bros. lot, after a day of the not-quite-officially-ordered third season, the writers had room for shrinkageWhile he dodged, Goldstein tried to diagnose his work ethic Ted Lasso Speculation about Season 4 and his reasoning for why he believes most comics aren't “fools.”

Either way, you seem to have a constantly full plate. Are you thinking about dropping something?

I've always been like this, working on 12 things at once. But it took many, many years before anyone saw anything I was working on. There's a window here, and I don't know how long this window will stay open. I might as well make the most of it before it closes. I really love it too. So why shouldn't I do everything except maybe get some sleep and live an emotional life? I can say this as a joke and also mean it: One of the great things about being a workaholic is that you don't have time to stop and be sad.

I would argue your window certainly seems open for the immediate future. Don't you feel like you have job security?

I don't think I've met anyone who feels confident in this business. Do you have?

Some narcissists.

Oh yes, that bad People, of course! But everyone else… I've met actors who have worked non-stop for 40 years and they still say, “Every time I finish a project I think, damn, that was my last job.” That doesn't go away. But I did it Sesame Street. If it's over tomorrow, when the window closes, everything will be fine. “You did Sesame Streetnow go live by the sea.”

Has shrinkage Have you changed your relationship with your own therapist?

I don't believe? I don't think she's even watching. We play around with it on the show, but I think there should be limits. I have been with my therapist for a long time and over time I know more about her life. But it's difficult. …The more you know about her, the more you worry about her. And that's probably not the best use of your time. It's such a strange relationship, isn't it? Damn, she knows what she really thinks of me. She might think I'm terrible.

There's an emerging trend of you writing your way into shows where you weren't originally part of the cast. Tell me about it.

Bill had tried to get me to at least do a cameo, something fun. Then we had written this character for the second season and were about to cast her when Jason brought me and Bill into his trailer and said, “Why doesn't Brett take this role?”

It's not a fun part and probably not what people would expect.

No. Bill said, “I don't understand.” But he called me the next morning and said something very sincere. Shit. He said, “I think you're a real artist, and if you think you can do this, I'll support you.” It was scary, but fuck it, let's try it. Anything scary you should probably do.

What scares you – doing it or waiting to see how it will be received?

The place where you drop off the stuff is really scary. You love these things and want to protect them, but you never know. I learned that while fucking Ted Lasso. We really didn't think anyone would be watching, let alone that it would get this reaction.

Yes, but this show was an anomaly.

I don't think there's a lesson in it either. It was a miracle. You can't really copy it. I'm sure they're trying to reproduce it now Baby reindeer. (Sigh.) Anything that breaks through is an original idea. It is never the thing that is a copy of the thing.

I have to ask you something Ted Lassowhich recently accepted your option for a fourth season.

I'm sure you do. I don't know anything. I heard about it in the press.

You didn't do that.

No, I found out about it because I received a call from my team telling me it had been picked up. (Laughs.) See! What the fuck are we doing? I'm sorry for you – I'm sorry for me – that we have to do this. But in this case I really don't know anything. There will soon be a plan that will be put into action, but so far the plan has not been put into action.

The narrative surrounding the show has always been incredibly positive. Then, in the third season, there were delays, talk of a budget overrun, and ultimately decidedly mixed reviews. How did you digest this time?

This is a difficult question because I don't take time to think and feel. (Laughs.) How do I feel about this? We were following a vision, and there are things that I really admire about Jason Sudeikis and his sticking to the vision. We were aware of the internet and what people enjoy and want. But we had to ignore all that and stick to the vision – for better or worse, regardless of the outcome. That's a pretty impressive and unusual quality, certainly in a populist environment. It received a mixed reception, but that's the risk of taking the artistic route.

What script were you unable to sell?

I don't know if you've noticed, but most scripts are fucking crap. And because people want me to be involved in something or help them do something, I get a lot of that. It's statistically shocking how many are depressingly bad. But these two guys, Nate Smith and Jim Santangeli, sent me this pilot that was just fucking. That's where I get frustrated with this deal: it would have been a slam dunk, but it didn't work out. I was shocked. But the industry is in trouble and it's scared.

Are the people around you having more success selling than they did at the beginning of the year?

No, I think it's just Bill Lawrence selling. (Laughs). Even in Toronto, I think they only sold one film in two weeks.

You've been on a stand-up tour for a while now. When was the last time you bombed?

Last week I played Red Rocks. It was incredible. Thousands of people. Great. A few days earlier I was at The Improv. A lot of film managers came and I died on the spot. You just think, “Why did they have to see it?” The?”

Did you invite her?

I would never have done that! I didn't know they were coming. They said, “Hey, we stopped by to see you.” Damn it! But that's standard practice: king of the world for a day and then immediately damn embarrassed. I think that's why stand-ups generally aren't idiots. It is difficult to be arrogant and constantly humble.

What doors do you think are still closed to you?

David Lynch's house.

Well, that's not your fault. He is immunocompromised.

That's the problem. But David Lynch is number 1 on the list of people I still want on my podcast. Most of my friends are in the fourth round, but there are still a few white whales left – Martin Scorsese, Sofia Coppola, Spike Lee, the legends.

Speaking of legends, you work with Harrison Ford. Any good stories about him on set?

He is a naughty boy. He's cheeky. There's a scene this season at a lake between him and Jason – and when we shot it, he was really excited to push Jason into it. He kept bringing it up. “That won’t work, Harrison, for several reasons. He gets sick and we don't have a change of clothes. You'll ruin the shoot.' We had to convince him not to do it. He loves to fuck around. And you never get used to working with him.

Your podcast is called Films to be buried with. What was the last movie you saw that you really liked?

I watched My old ass last night. Made me cry. It's a perfect example of all the things I love about making something because it's obviously made with love. As a writer, I've always been taught to love all characters – and (writer-director Megan Park) does that beautifully. It's funny and so specific and totally relatable. I am that girl. (Laughs.) I understand everything that's going on.

This isn't a criticism, but I'm curious if anyone at work has ever asked you to say “shit” less often.

I wrote something. And the more I work on it, the more I think there is a way that could work for both adults and younger people. This means stopping the curses. I really try, but the problem is… it's better with the swearing. But Ted Lasso worked for families and that involved swearing. The kids are all screwed anyway. That's the least of their worries.

This story appeared in the October 9 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. Click here to register.